Skip to main content

15th July 2022 - Adam and Eve - Chat with another close friend

 
I was really enjoying the LDS Discussion episodes and how they built on each other. This one I listened to on this day spoke of a few things including how many stories in the Bible are based on the epic of Gilgamesh, which is an ancient text that predates the Adam and Eve story.  Scholars think the Adam and Eve story was written in 8th century BCE when The Epic of Gilgamesh was believed to have been written around 1800 BCE. 

This blew my mind to hear that the Adam and Eve story very well may have been an adaptation of the Epic of Gilgamesh. So, how does that account for the literal story of Adam and Eve in the Book of Mormon?

Adam and Eve in Mormonism

The story of Adam and Eve is always taught whenever the beginning of the Bible is discussed, as found in Genesis; when the Book of Mormon in 2 Nephi chapter 2 is discussed; or in the opening chapters of the Book of Abraham or Book of Moses.

In the Book of Mormon, the story of Adam and Eve is expounded upon to include some unique Mormon-specific details. These include the following:
  • Adam and Eve would have lived forever in the Garden of Eden had they not partaken of the fruit,
  • They would have had no children if it weren't for the fruit because they were totally innocent,
  • They had no idea the difference between good and evil prior to eating the fruit,
  • It was always God's plan for them to partake of the fruit, and as such are praised for their courageous decision to eat,
  • Jesus Christ's sacrifice was not a backup plan, but the central plan for when they ate the fruit.
These specific inclusions in the Book of Mormon cement and make literal the story as actually happening. Never did I hear anyone ever teach or mention that this story was a metaphor. So, this becomes problematic when you hear Bible scholars discovering that the Adam and Eve story was written in 800 BCE and was likely based off a different myth that was written 1000 years earlier. 

The Book of Abraham and Moses is its own can of worms and can best be understood by reading the CES letter section on it. These books also make the Adam and Eve story literal.

The temple endowment ceremony takes making it literal to a whole other level. The entire ceremony is centered around what happened in the Garden of Eden, including a visual depiction through a film of the universe and Earth being created right through to Satan tempting Eve and so on. The promises that each member must make are said to be the very promises that Adam and Eve made thousands of years ago. I am sure it is clear how central the story of Adam and Eve is to Mormonism.

A Narrow view of God

It was here that Mike mentioned that God doesn’t need Mormonism, but rather Mormonism needs God and this becomes a problem. He mentioned that you can still have a belief in God outside the Mormon church. However, in my experience Mormonism has taught me such a narrow view of God so much so that I cannot see God in any other light in another religion. Why? Well, for starters, the very nature of God in the Mormon view is contrary to what many mainstream Christians believe. That is, that God has a body of flesh and bones; that he was once a man and achieved godhood through obedience, and that because this is his true church, God is not in any other religion. When these points are pushed, and pushed, and pushed, especially that last point, you become conditioned to it. And so when I step away from it, I also leave the conditioned belief that God is only in Mormonism; that God is Mormonism.

I suppose in one way or another it’s a bit sad that I have to lose my entire faith in God because of the Mormon truth claims that I was taught. Little did I know that in over a years time, I would come across an article that explained this very phenomenon; how when Mormons leave the church, they often lose their faith in God entirely.

Chat with another close friend. 

Later I spoke to my friend about my leaving the church. Overall, an amazing discourse! The kind I wish I had with my couple friends. I felt like he was genuinely interested in my story, and desperately wanted to know how I got to this new stage in my life. From the “gold member” status he gave me to an exmormon. We spoke about how the culture is toxic, though the service opportunities are great. He mentioned him and the elders quorum (who I discovered are all aware of my stepping away from church) are wondering why gold members are leaving. 

I told him it started with the gay issue especially finding out about my gay friend. Then David Archelleta’s story. And even though I’ve learnt more about the historicity issues of the Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith and other prophets, I cannot believe in a god who directs his church to half accept the gay community. And the scripture that says “everyone who isn’t raised to the highest degree, will be a servant to other gods” and the phrase “just don’t give into gay sin and it’ll all get worked out afterwards” just cannot work for me. The more I read stories from other people's experiences, the more I think about, and reflect on comments of past and present leaders, I cannot believe the church to be inspired of god in the way it professes, and therefore be his church.
 
My interaction with my friend was great. He wondered what it would look like if there were ten of me with more members; to see if better relationships could be fostered between those that doubt and those that just believed. He mentioned that he’s been made aware that his interactions with non-members has been propelled by a motive to get them baptised. And he said he didn’t like that. I asked him why he feels that motive. He replied, “the church teaches us every member a missionary.” I pressed why again. It’s because the church teaches that the only true way back to God is through the church’s doctrine of baptism, Holy Ghost, temple, and temple marriage. Anything outside that isn’t enough. Which I get why Christians find it hard to heard that when Christ and his atonement isn’t even mentioned, and alone is insufficient to get us back into god's presence. It is seasoned across other steps rather than getting us there on its own. He agreed that it’s affected him, and caused him to wonder about a few things with the hopes of understanding it and becoming a stronger member. He also disclosed some other things I thought were interesting:
  • That if he wanted to go see a rugby game after church, he would go. 
  • He acknowledged that if he was spotted talking with me by certain members, that Bishop would be calling him in for a temple recommend interview. 
  • He also said that if he decided not to wear the usual attire to church, he’d be questioned. 
I love my friend. He’s a good man. And we just might speak again on this. 

Labels:

Comments

Post a Comment

Popular posts from this blog

13th July 2022 - The loss of two great doctrinal pillars

I continued to listen to a variety of content that ranges anyway from more Mormon Stories episodes to a satire podcast called “The Podcast on the Left” and a range of comedy skits that I would have been ashamed to have admitted to listening to. But all of them contained observable and tangible points of view that continued to shape my new views.  I then had this thought; another mental progression checkin: I’ve now come to terms that the church is an organisation that strives to give meaning, purpose and direction for its members.  But I do not believe that the leaders are inspired of God, and I no longer believe the church to be gods restored church on the earth.  It’s but another church with a mission for the world. I feel a shift deep within me that has widened my view of the world. It is much larger!   This new milestone in my views is huge, and I'll tell you why. As I have mentioned before, those that are brought up in the church are taught from a young age cert...
Post a Comment
Read more

June - December 2021- The Jubilee Videos

At my work, I am able to consume audio content in large amounts and so I began listening to the debates and discussions that took place on the YouTube channel Jubilee, a show called Middle Ground.  Basically, a group got together that comprised of 6 individuals, 3 for the topic and 3 against it. They discussed every topic under the sun, from politics or religion to pro-life and pro-sex work. I found the conversations insightful, and it continued to prompt thoughts in my mind as to what truth was.  Much of what I was taught as truth I learned was really an interpretation of a perception of reality. In short, the truths I was taught were merely opinions. Like should a woman have an abortion. The church says no unless the circumstances are extreme. But why can’t the woman decide that for herself? Should men masturbate? The church says no unless you have a leader that thinks it is ok (Leadership Roulette is a real thing). But why can’t that be something a person decides to do? Is ...
Post a Comment
Read more

For context; my unwavering faith

Like all stories in movies and books, characters always have a 'normal life' before their call to adventure, or some event takes place before they upheave their lives in new, exciting, and often terrifying ways. I thought it might be beneficial to provide some context and history before my faith transition occurred. I was born and raised in the church, like Nephi "of goodly parents." My mother went to church when she was younger, and my father converted while courting my mother. I attended the sealing of my parents while in the womb and was born and blessed like most LDS babies raised in the church. I attended my meetings faithfully, participated anxiously in all activities, and completed my religious studies during Sunday school, priesthood classes, and early morning seminary. I made efforts to pass, prepare and bless the sacrament when I could. I collected fast-offering donations in blue envelopes once a month and paid my tithing on any money I got (including birthd...
Post a Comment
Read more